[WEBINAR] What the Future: Attention

Attention is the most valuable currency in marketing, where constant demands for our focus flit from one thing to the next, yet we can endlessly binge on content from TV to podcasts to films. This dynamic, and the explosion of AI and misinformation, creates a new challenge for creators and brands to connect with consumers in their screen-saturated lives.

Taped amid the buzz of the 40th SXSW in Austin, our May 13 What the Future: Attention webinar in a new conversation format, features exclusive new data from Ipsos and digs deep into the dual realities of our fragmented yet focused habits. You’ll hear about the emerging pushback against constant connectivity in favor of mindfulness and why building genuine brand communities might just be the antidote.

For more insights on what it takes to break through in the modern world, be sure to check out our Real Reality: Insights to Activate.

Speakers:

Key highlights and takeaways:

• Human connection and emotional resonance:

- Cheryl Miller Houser emphasized the need for brands to connect with audiences on an emotional level, highlighting that authenticity and emotional engagement are essential as consumers shift to private and small-group platforms.

- “ Brands can't buy attention or influence anymore. They can't buy access like they used to be able to. So they have to move people and then have people within communities or have people direct message something to their friends and family. And that's how a brand will get attention and connection . That's always been the case. Brands have had to move people emotionally to connect, but now more than ever when they cannot buy influence, they have to be getting into people's hearts and souls and then having people share within the communities they are or within their direct messages.

• Crafting meaningful brand relationships (The "Dinner Party" approach)

- Matt Klein discussed how brands must act like good guests at a dinner party by understanding the context, adding cultural value, and engaging sincerely rather than relying on outdated, loud broadcasting methods that disrupt the user experience.

“We're so used to, as marketers whipping out the megaphone. And we have relied upon this idea of spectacle as a form of garnering attention. …. We're so used to saying, look at me, or look at me, look at me. Look at me versus I see you. And I think the difference between those two is the complete difference of what success is today in a media environment .”

• AI disruption and the strategic value of unique, owned data•

- Matt Carmichael posits that as AI generates endless personalized content and email filters become more aggressive, breaking through the noise will require proprietary, trustworthy data and insights that Large Language Models (LLMs) cannot easily scrape from the public internet.

" AI tools are already at a point where they can generate endless, seemingly personalized content tailored just for you that's going to be happening at scale any moment now... So there's a plausible future where the only way to break through and get people's attention, or at least show up in their daily AI summary, is by having something unique owned and something the LLMs won't find on the internet ."

• Empathy and Cultural Relevance over functional product marketing

- Cheryl Miller House explained that TMT brands must move beyond simply listing functional product benefits. Acknowledging consumer realities through empathetic storytelling is vital, as B2B and B2C purchasing decisions are primarily driven by emotion, not just logic.

"And so when brands talk about the functional needs that the product meets, it's appealing to our rational brain. And people don't make decisions including buying decisions, including B2B and B2C based on rational thinking. We make decisions including purchasing decisions, primarily based on emotion ."

• Escaping the "Tyranny of the Dashboard" and redefining metrics

- Matt Klein urged executives to shift their focus from "cheap attention" (empty clicks) to meaningful resonance and depth to build sustainable platforms.

" I think larger what we're dealing with is this idea of the tyranny of the dashboard. If we're beholden to making numbers go up, you begin to outsource decisions to anti-human behaviors ... It's cheap attention because it's making the number go up. But because we're not reflecting or taking accountability of, is this attention even worthwhile? Is this really measuring resonance? No, it's not."

Full Transcript:

Matt Carmichael (00:06):

Hey everybody. Welcome to the future of Attention. Today we're going to talk about a central tension. Our attention is both scattered and chunked into shorter and shorter formats, but at the same time, we seem to have nearly limitless attention for the things we want to be attentive to. Now, I've done dozens of these webinars, and you've heard me talk about the future of a lot of things. I'm not prone to hyperbole nor overly apocalyptic, and I didn't use the word hellscape in an issue until we did an issue on the future of shopping. I've never said that X will kill Y, but this topic attention might just change that. Now that I have your attention, I'm Matt Carmichael, editor of What the Future and Your host Today, longtime WF fans will notice some changes here. This is not my attic; this is not the recording studio I'm usually in.

Matt Carmichael (00:58):

We are on location filming from Austin at the 40th, so by Southwest. And I say we because there's a film crew here, and we also have live guests. So I'm going to talk about the attention issue and our exclusive new research a little bit. And then I, we're going to sit down with my new friends, Matt Klein, the editor of Zine, and Cheryl Hauser, the founder of Creative Breed. And we're going to have a live conversation about all of this. We hope you dig the new format, and please let us know what you think in the comments or email. Now, whatever your thing, cats cooking, Minecraft speed runs. We will consume limitless content about our favorite topics. And AI is here to help with all of that quickly and tirelessly generating content as fast as data centers can get built, lakes drained and electricity generated. A kid kind of, but younger adults especially, want to connect and give their attention and build community around these increasingly niche fan communities.

Matt Carmichael (01:53):

In the issue, we talked to Kyle Watson, the chief brand officer for the Energy Drink Celsius, and she said, what I see as important is brands creating their own ecosystems and connecting the dots between these communities, but also establishing those people in those communities that are going to be the brand's voice because they're so authentically connected to those humans. But also at the same time, there's a backlash in the form of a cottage industry focused on focus. Everything from notebooks and energy drinks to wellness retreats where you can unplug and be mindful and center yourself. Here's the story in this issue. Everything and everyone are vying for your attention and your data, which has been deemed the most prized commodity by marketers and policymakers and platforms alike. Attention is essentially just a fancy way of saying time. You have a finite amount of it and marketers want to grab it.

Matt Carmichael (02:49):

And let's be honest, they're doing that to sell you things. AI is just getting started, and already we are bombarded by information. We don't know what to trust other than ourselves, what we see with our own eyes and hear with our own ears. And one of the only lines in this chart that's gone up since 2020, messaging from brands who've leaned into values, alignment and authenticity this decade, attention to news and information, not entertainment is an especially important focus. There are so many ways for us to get news, but the ones we tend to turn to social media, for instance, aren't the ones we trust. And there's a notable increase since 2020 of people saying that journalism can take a side as long as it's rooted in good reporting. That's it, that's the job. But reporters have also been taught for decades that conflict is the way to get attention, maybe even the key way in this issue.

Matt Carmichael (03:44):

We talked to Amanda Ripley, a journalist and author of a book called High Conflict. She teaches journalists how to reduce the conflict in their reporting while still telling good stories that conflict gains attention but erodes trust and makes communication and cooperation difficult. While AI is going to cause a lot of problems for us with disinformation and such, she sees a big positive from ai. She told me quote, AI is shockingly good at coaching humans to be better communicators in conflict. If we start from the premise that most of us are not well skilled in intelligent, healthy, smart conflict skills, we never get that training. We don't see it modeled in our politics or our culture, right? She said, to thrive in the modern age, you're going to have to get much better at it much more quickly. And that's the only hope we've got. And we have found AI tools to be very, very good at helping humans, for example, get better at listening. She said,

Matt Carmichael (04:42):

Now at the outset, I hinted at a death. Is there a world where AI kills email marketing? AI tools are already at a point where they can generate endless, seemingly personalized content tailored just for you that's going to be happening at scale any moment Now, your email software meanwhile, is going to be better at figuring out what comes are worthy of your attention and keeping the rest from you. So there's a plausible future where the only way to break through and get people's attention, or at least show up in their daily AI summary, is by having something unique owned and something the LLMs won't find on the internet. One solution, trustworthy data and research. Tell your customers something they don't know about, something they care about, and you'll get their attention. You can check out the full attention [email protected] for more data and conversations. But speaking of conversations, it's time for me to join Matt and Cheryl and talk through all of this. Let's dive in. So, hey, now we are going to talk to our panel, and we have actual humans here. It's not just me playing audio clips of our guests that we had interviewed previously. So I'm really excited and I'm going to let them introduce themselves. Matt, you'll start.

Matt Klein (06:04):

Hey there, my name is Matt Klein. I call myself a cultural theorist and a media strategist, essentially trying to understand what our relationship to media and technology is and how do we help organizations show up in culture in a more strategic, resonant and pro-human manner.

Matt Carmichael (06:19):

And Cheryl

Cheryl Miller Houser (06:21):

I'm Cheryl Miller Hauser. I am a documentary filmmaker, a keynote speaker, and a narrative coach. I work with brands and leaders and help them show up as more human and relatable in the stories they tell. As a filmmaker, I work with brands on commercials, web series, branded documentaries, launch videos, anything featuring real people that creates an emotional connection and gets to the heart of what makes us human.

Matt Carmichael (06:52):

And that's a great kind of theme to start with, right? So we are at South by Southwest and we are taking in all the things, and I'm sure you've been hitting some sessions as well as you've got your own talks coming up or you have already given yours. What are some of the things that have been getting your attention at South by?

Cheryl Miller Houser (07:10):

Well I loved Matt's session. And what I love most about South by is the serendipity here, the coming together with people from all different disciplines. The divergent thinking, the open-mindedness that people are here to learn from each other and to share. And that's what I love most about South By.

Matt Klein (07:32):

Yeah, I love the globalization of the South by brand and who's now attending. And it really feels like in the most cliche manner, a melting pot of so many different perspectives, not just in regard to all the topics that south by covers, but all the countries that are now represented as well. So the people watching, if you will, more than anything, is fascinating.

Matt Carmichael (07:51):

Yeah. And one of the big themes is like being together is I think the theme for this year. Someone along those lines. And so the idea of talking about humans in all of this, especially as we are surrounded by all the context of technology and ai, and every panel has had the same three AI slides in it, but it's good to keep bringing that back. And I think that's the theme we will get into a little bit today. But what are some of the brands that you think are, like, what are some of the ways that they're cutting through all of the noise and all of the signals around us to actually get our attentions? You want to start Cheryl?

Cheryl Miller Houser (08:25):

Sure. I think that brands have to speak to our emotional needs, not our functional needs. We see a trend of people moving away from broadcast social media into private, I mean instant direct messaging is now the most popular form of people on their devices. People moving into private groups. So brands can't buy attention or influence anymore. They can't buy access like they used to be able to. So they have to move people and then have people within communities or have people direct message something to their friends and family. And that's how a brand will get attention and connection. That's always been the case. Brands have had to move people emotionally to connect, but now more than ever when they cannot buy influence, they have to be getting into people's hearts and souls and then having people share within the communities they are or within their direct messages. And people only share things that move them and that say something about them. So

Matt Klein (09:38):

I think we're so used to, as marketers whipping out the megaphone. And we have relied upon this idea of spectacle as a form of garnering attention. And as you mentioned, those channels are changing. The ways in which we interact with one another are changing, and therefore the ways in which we interact with brands are changing. The problem though is that when brands rely upon that megaphone model and come in and say, look at me, look at me, look at me. But doing so in a more intimate environment, that doesn't really work out. So I think the ways in which we think about it now is how do you show up in such a way where it's matching the intimacy or perhaps the vulnerability or the messiness or the nuance that people are essentially leaning into in these different spaces. And again, I think for a brand that's so used to being loud, that's really hard. We're so used to saying, look at me, or look at me, look at me. Look at me versus IC you. And I think the difference between those two is the complete difference of what success is today in a, in a media environment.

Matt Carmichael (10:43):

Yeah. And there's so many different ways and communities and fandoms where those kinds of interactions are taking place, and the brands are trying to be authentic and reach out to the people who are authentic in those communities. And the communities themselves can kind of tell when that's working, when it's not. And I’ve got to say, I don't envy marketers at the moment. Like, it is not an easy job. Like we think back to the men era and it's like, oh, my decision is going to be, which of the three networks do I put my spot on? And how many times do I run it? And it's like, oh, it should have been that easy. You can see why they had time to like, take long naps on their couches in the middle of the day and have 17 cocktail lunches. Like, I

Matt Klein (11:21):

Mean, it's, it's a mess Right now. The, the shifts that I'm seeing, one, it's a very no or low trust environment. So the percentage of those who are looking at institutions as trustworthy messengers is declining. We're in an age of lost nuance where it's harder to see nuance than before. And cultures inherently messy subjective and nuance. So it's harder to land in that place. I think we're also in a moment of pre rationalizing, which is we can't make any decision without a thousand data points or a thousand slides to justify why we should do the thing. But we could also pre rationalize in such a way where we are making really anti-human decisions. So I think the antidote to that is post rationalizing. There are far more good ideas we could post rationalize than we could pre rationalize. So why we're making pre rationalizing a prerequisite for making any decision. And the brains that we see that are post rationalizing, like a hot one for example, like hot ones on paper, doesn't make any sense. That's a post rationalized idea. So when we think about attention as well, how can we get more comfortable with discomfort and not knowing how something is going to perform and value the human in that as well. I think when we do that, we see some brilliant ideas that really resonate in culture.

Cheryl Miller Houser (12:35):

I don't think any great ideas come out of the rational brain. It they often start with something we feel and as a storyteller, I mean, Robert Frost, the poet says, no tears on the page, no tears from the reader. I mean, the greatest stories are the more connected the storyteller is. And that can be a brand or a leader, the more they are going to be able to connect with an audience. I mean, we look at Dove, one of, you know, an extraordinary brand and their real beauty, which started in 2002 and has transformed that brand turned it into a hugely profitable brand. And also huge cultural force. It started, 'cause there was a group of women who worked there and they were looking at ads from their competitors and one of them spoke up and from her gut feeling, these ads make me feel really bad about myself.

Cheryl Miller Houser (13:33):

And then they, those women took a year to study the rational thinking of what is culture doing to women around the world? They're making women cultures, making women feel bad about themselves. And then they had to convince their male colleagues of this, who rationally, rationally were saying, we don't believe this. And so the women got the wives and daughters of those male executives to send in video talking about how ads were making them feel bad about themselves. And that's why they launched Real Beauty. And they were the first brand to come out and talk about women and make them feel seen and heard and understood and validated. We love you. You are beautiful just the way you are. We love you just the way you are. And that's what's transformed the brand who used to before that talk about functionality of the product.

Cheryl Miller Houser (14:26):

And so when brands talk about the functional needs that the product meets, it's appealing to our rational brain. And people don't make decisions including buying decisions, including B2B and B2C based on rational thinking. We make decisions including purchasing decisions, primarily based on emotion. And we rationalize the decision with afterwards with our, you know, rational thinking. But you know, what you were saying before about making people feel seen and heard, I mean, every brand needs to do what Dove did 20 years ago and understand how people are feeling, what is what, what is their true, true experience not some aspirational experience. And then like validate, we see you, we understand you, and we're here to meet your emotional needs, not just your functional needs. Yeah. And I

Matt Carmichael (15:24):

Think that's been kind of a recurring theme we've been hearing lately is that like, AI is getting more personal, but we also need to keep the human connection and keep the humans involved in the things. And that empathy is kind of a superpower, right? That being able to have that kind of meaningful connection with the people you're trying to reach. And I think back when we were kind of chatting earlier, Matt, you had this great metaphor about like the dinner table. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>.

Matt Klein (15:50):

The way in which I think of culture right now is we are at a dinner party, and as I mentioned before, these brands are coming into the dinner party with these megaphones say, look at me, look at me, look at me. That's one way to guarantee that you're not getting invited back to that dinner party. But if you show up firstly doing your homework before, who's going to be there? What's the vibe? What are people wearing? Perhaps it's maybe not a dinner party for you. You bring something of value, so like a bottle of red, but in the brand world that could be access, entertainment value, you are giving more than you take. And you're also asking questions. You make other people feel special, you allow other people to ask you questions, you have interesting stories to tell. If you don't have an interesting story, perhaps that's a signal that you go out and do something interesting in culture.

Matt Klein (16:37):

So you have a story worth telling. And you also know that this isn't your home. If you go into a community, you don't own it, you don't get to put your feet up on the couch. So when a brand shows up that way, an organization shows up in culture that way they can invite a time and time and time again back and back and back again. The problem is we're using these old playbooks where we come in hot and we try to hijack the trend or hijack the meme or whatever it may be and say, what about me? Can I, can I be at this party too? And they're like, why doesn't anyone like me? It's like, because you're a really bad dinner party guest.

Matt Carmichael (17:09):

Yeah. And I really like the idea of being intentional about doing the thing so that you can then go talk about it and be part of it. And I think that's a really good message for us to be thinking

Matt Klein (17:20):

About. Yeah, I think so many organizations are trying to contort and twist and posture just to get in, and once they're there, they don't know what to do. So I think when you have that conviction and you have that wherewithal of why are we even showing up to this dinner party? Or are we making people feel special? Are we bringing something of value? When you start from that place, then it's easier. If you want a good image, you start with a good reality. But we're so busy trying to contort and reframe after the fact that we're missing the opportunity to show up and have a good reality in the first place.

Cheryl Miller Houser (17:51):

I think I mean, I love that analogy and I think brands have to behave like humans. And who are the humans we are most attracted to? They're people who make us feel seen and, and heard and special. And also yeah, that, that are not perfect, not like, you know the, the brands again that are, are, are showing this aspirational look at our lives and our pushing product. We are not going to feel a connection. We're going to feel a connection to a brand that helps us feel seen in our fullness. I mean, we're not perfect. Being human. Being human can be wondrous and beautiful and joyful, and it's also really hard and messy and painful. And so the brands that acknowledge that full spectrum of what it means to be human, we feel seen, we feel like we can, they give us space to embrace who we are. And, and so we trust them and we embrace them.

Matt Klein (19:04):

Yeah. That's the inherent tension because the brand as we view it, must be polished and perfected and smoothed over and rounded. And that's at complete odds with how people are showing up in culture right now, which is we don't want that perfection. We don't want the smoothed over or the filter that we're valuing. The honest, the other thing that this is intention with is this idea of scale, right? We want scale, we want scale, we want scale. You don't really scale relationships. You can't be a friend to everyone. So that comes back to the dinner party example where we can't be at every single party all the time. And so often brands show up, they walk into the metaphorical community or dinner party, and they're already looking at their phone, looking for the next party to go to, not actually resonating with the people who are there. And people smell that. They feel that. So I think what this also means is how do you dial up your conviction to say, these are the types of people that we want to create relationships with, and that may mean sacrifice. And I think we're having a really hard time with sacrifice right now when everything is so quick and so, so scalable that we kind of have to

Cheryl Miller Houser (20:06):

Down, well, no brand, no brand can be all things to all people. And the brands that try just fade into the sameness of everyone else trying to conform and fit in. So, you know, a brand needs to know who it is and what it believes, and then, and culture starts with what people believe and so, and is grounded in belief. So you, that's how you find your true believers and that those true believers, you know, attract other True, that's the infectious nature of culture. But also in terms of, you know, we talk about, we're talking about attention today, but it's not just to capture attention, it's attention for to what end? Yeah. To get people to do something, to change attitudes, to change behavior, to buy a product, to hire users. I mean, so it's not just to, it's, it's, it's, so, it's not, it's a, it's the emotional connection. And because attention by itself is meaningless. And then in terms of talking about how attention spreads these days when people see something that moves them, they share with others, they share within their community, and those people share more widely, that gets media attention, that gets discussion. And then there's this whole loop. So instead of now this megaphone of an influencer who has millions of followers, like the megaphone is not working as much, it's starting small and then spreading outwards from the individual to the community to getting the media attention. Yeah.

Matt Carmichael (21:51):

And as we kind of think about the future of attention, there's where it's such this kind of weird inflection point with a lot of things changing. We're also, as you've pointed out, like in a pretty low trust environment in terms of systems and governments. And although we are a little more trusting of brands, which is kind of interesting that that's like a place we're looking for mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I think because the future is so unpredictable at the moment, there's certainly some obvious paths it could go, but we don't know which one it's going to take. And we'll probably meander a little bit. But I think the theme that we keep hearing is that we as humans are always going to want other things that are human and that no matter what the technology is doing around us, we're going to want to kind of keep that human connection going.

Matt Carmichael (22:33):

And so that's always a good thing for brands to just lean into, even as everything else around you is crazy and chaotic and everybody wants your attention. And so one of the panels I was at this week said something out loud that I have thought in my head a lot, which is, can we please have another example besides Patagonia and Ben and Jerry's, please? And you've mentioned Dove, which is the other one that's always like in the conversation, and it's like, why aren't there more of those? So as you guys are thinking about brands and attention, like what brands have your attention at the moment, who are doing this well, and who do you think is well positioned to carry this kind of human feeling forward?

Matt Klein (23:08):

I have two that come to mind. I mean, I have a lot more, but which I'll share right now. The first is Lego. I think Lego is absolutely crushing it. I look at their idea forum as an incredible, an incredible case study where they essentially allow people to submit what kits they want to see built in the world. So there's reviews and ratings and judges, and perhaps one day your submitted kit can be built by Lego and sold around the world. Now, what's so brilliant about that idea is that Lego doesn't even have to make any of those kits, even though they have, it's this invitation of pun intended, we want to build with you, we want to hear your thoughts, we want to build with you and bring you into the fold. Another example I think of is star face, the acne, pimple patch brand.

Matt Klein (23:56):

If you want to resonate in culture, you have to think about what is the future that my audience wants to see, and how do I build that with them? How do I augment fund platform, honor, celebrate. If you think about what teenagers want, or adolescents, they don't want acne or more precisely if they want to de-stigmatize acne. No one likes acne. We're quite literally built a business on top of de-stigmatizing acne. So when we look back, we're like, why do people love the brand? It's like, because they're building a world that these people want to see, and they're doing it alongside them, and they're not speaking at them. They're doing something that these people really, really care about. So when we think about attention, this is not cheap attention to your point. We're so obsessed and we hyper optimize for the number and make the metric go big. That's cheap attention, that's empty calories. There's another sort of attention which is resonance and depth. And I look at a star face, like that's real attention. That is, people are committed to that brand because they're building a world that these people want to see. People don't forget that. Yeah.

Cheryl Miller Houser (24:59):

Yeah. And I use Dov. I not, they are used all the time now because of how that started. Yeah. It was just from the like we talk about listening all the time, and often brands, it's the social listening or the data and the, the listening that is most important is the listening of the heart. And it, when I am a brand, I'm beaded with now is a Brazilian beauty brand. OBO Rio. They're actually global. They had over 6 billion in sales last year. They're still a private company. They've grown organically, started by a chemist or someone who studied a pharmacist came out and started mixing, blending things in a blender in his shop, in yeah, in Brazil. They are every Mother’s Day, they do a spot, I'm going to use one of their spots in my talk this year here.

Cheryl Miller Houser (25:57):

They tackle issues that carry so much stigma for their customers, for, for women. And last year they tackled infertility with this, this short three minute, like spot little. And it, it just like I wept, I watched it and wept. The one I'm using is a mother and a son and looking at adolescents they saw a Harvard study that showed that adolescence is one of the most lonely and turbulent times for mothers, but mothers don't talk about it because they're so full of guilt and shame for being rejected by their children. They've tackled the sibling tension around caring for a mother with dementia. So they're tackling with, with love, compassion, but also the full scope of what makes us human. And the spot I'm using Tempesta about the mother and son was within 24 hours, the most talked about and viewed spot that the brand had ever made.

Cheryl Miller Houser (26:59):

And people shared it in WhatsApp widely saying, this is me. And got women who were ashamed to talk about this, sending to friends and family, having deep vulnerable, open conversations about the loneliness and the shame they felt during adolescence. And this is how a company can, can lift a stigma, get conversation, get attention, build love and trust. I'm using a spot this year from TA company in the erectile dysfunction space who's using humor. And most spots in that category speak in like these hush saccharin tones or very medicalized and are perpetuating this, you are broken, our product will fix you. And here they're reframing erectile dysfunction around confidence and resilience, and it's a locker room like the coach is talking to, you know, play hard, stay hard, but either using humor and innuendo to capture that emotional experience. But again, lifting the stigma, I mean, is talking about things that carry a lot of shame. Yeah. And I think that this, this is what I mean when I talk about when a brand shows up and they see us in our fullness and say, you are normal. What you are experiencing is normal. That's human. Then. they are shifting culture, they're leading culture, and they're also making us feel seen.

Matt Carmichael (28:37):

So one of the things I love about what the future is, it's a magazine about the future, and we are thinking about three to five to 10 years in the future. But what always winds up happening is that we always come back to kind of these same bedrock conversations. Like we have all of these new tools as marketers and as policy makers to reach people to platforms, to talk to them about platforms, to talk to them on all of these different ways that our attention is being divided, all of the different ways that AI is disrupting all that. And then you get people in a room and they're like, oh no, dude, you still have to just be human. And like, you have to talk to people and you have to like lean into that and empathy and like, it sounds trite to just keep kind of coming back to these points, but like, there's a reason for that. And I think that will continue because as long as you were still marketing to the humans and marketing to AI is a whole nother thing we could talk about. You still have to be making the things that work with humans. And I know Cheryl, you've done like, work around kind of the brain function about how those connections happen and how we deal with attention and all the things that are competing for it. Can you tell us a little about like, some of the research in that space?

Cheryl Miller Houser (29:41):

Yeah, and to your point, I mean, you said it before, the technology will change, it will continue to change. Our human, basic human emotional needs have not changed over the millennia. They're not, they're not changing. So well at least so far, but in terms of brain function, I, what, what I nerd out on is our brain on stories. Like what do stories do to our brain? And there, even in terms of attention, there was a study done out of Wharton that looked at 7,000 articles from the New York Times and which articles were shared more heavily or got people's attention. And again, it's the ones that activated certain emotions, but not just any emotion emotions that combined physical and psychological response. So awe, very big one, empathy on the negative scale, anger, anxiety. But in, you know, in terms of storytelling, we, if you take people on a journey and you through someone where they are, are our identifying emotionally, not, not in terms of demographics, but in terms of an emotional experience they go on the journey.

Cheryl Miller Houser (31:03):

It's called narrative transportation. And our brainwaves even think and so, you know, I, the, the, the most effective stories are the ones that where there's struggle and triumph and there's somebody who has a goal. There are stakes, there are obstacles that get in the way, and they have to transform to reach their goal. And if they reach their goal, we, if we've gone on that journey of narrative transportation, we feel empowered to take action like we can as well. But that the stories that involve transformation and that bring us on an emotional journey are the most effective. And it also makes sense that triggering awe and empathy would activate attention and action because awe and, and empathy make us feel like we belong to something bigger than ourselves, that we belong to a shared humanity. And the best stories capture that sense of shared, whether it's a movie, a, a brand spot, a leader, giving a talk to the team, that sense of shared humanity is so key. And

Matt Carmichael (32:13):

I think it's interesting one of the things we keep talking about is like these positive brand stories, but one of the people we talked to in the issue is a woman named Amanda Ripley, who wrote a book about high conflict. And a lot of her research as a journalist has been about all of the conflict and kind of how our brains process that. And it feels like that's often where a lot of people go as a shortcut to getting your attention, is to introduce more conflict. And you mentioned like you need a little bit of that in the overall arc, but if you go like straight to that, it's like hard. It's hard to get the connection you're looking for. And one of the panels I was at Rohit Bava and he's going to be co-writing a book with Henry Corino Mason about words that don't exist that should, and one of the ones they gave us was the anger rhythm that the algorithm is optimized toward making us angry. And I think being able to kind of tell some of these stories in more human and more empathetic ways and appeal to some of our better emotions is

Cheryl Miller Houser (33:14):

Hopefully

Matt Carmichael (33:15):

Where we're going to start going a little more.

Cheryl Miller Houser (33:17):

I mean, I am sure you, I mean, I'm not sure, but I think you study this, but I mean, study after study shows, right? That if, when, if when we're scrolling a lot of increased depression, increased loneliness, increased anxiety lower cognitive function, I mean, it's no good things come from the, you know, <laugh>.

Matt Klein (33:35):

Yeah. I think larger what we're dealing with is this idea of the, the tyranny of the dashboard. If we're beholden to making numbers go up, you begin to outsource decisions to anti-human behaviors. And that's where we get rage bait as the word of the year. But I think what's really happening is that we see these numbers go up when we do that type of content, whether that be organizations or whether that be individuals. It's back to that idea of cheap attention. It's cheap attention because it's making the number go up. But because we're not reflecting or taking accountability of, is this attention even worthwhile? Is this really measuring resonance? No, it's not. It's measuring eyeballs for half of a second. So when we outsource that thinking to make the number go up, that's how we get that type of content and nothing really good comes of that type of content. Yeah,

Matt Carmichael (34:26):

Yeah. So I want to pivot a little bit as we kind of wrap this up a little bit. But since we are talking about attention, I want to talk about attention is really, we mostly think about it as scattered, but it's also a thing that we are trying to do more and more to find ways to focus. And I think there's this kind of whole cottage industry about that, about trying to figure out how to get people to like unplug and be mindful. And so what kind of things do you do when you're trying to focus Cheryl?

Cheryl Miller Houser (34:57):

I live in New York City, and so

Matt Carmichael (35:01):

You just can't, I mean, it's just like geographically impositive <laugh>.

Cheryl Miller Houser (35:04):

No, I live across the street from a park and in a quiet apartment, so I, yeah, but I also have a place in the Hudson Valley and I'm shocked because I was such a city person. I now just want to be in the woods with the animals and the trees. I mean, I've really, really this sounds like such a, a cliche also, but I, I just like, I feel a physical shift when I'm up there. And but also, I'm not, I've never been, for better or worse I used to beat myself up for not being on Instagram. I mean, I have an account, but for not you, you know, not being there all the time, not posting all the time, not, you know, I'm not someone who ever, 'cause I couldn't, it, it made me anxious and empty.

Cheryl Miller Houser (35:54):

It made me feel empty. If I'm, if I spend too much time, and I don't, I'm not someone who experiences FOMO, but I like to wake up in the morning and have a cup of coffee and sit and think, like, just take time to, I've, I value more than anything time with loved ones, with friends, with family. I hate small talk. I want to go deep fast and stay deep. So I'm someone who has never been about, like, I, I move fast and I'm across a lot. But I think that I can do that because I find I'm so grounded in so many other ways in the rest of my life. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:32):

Yeah. That type lovely

Cheryl Miller Houser (36:35):

<Laugh>,

Matt Klein (36:35):

It's very aspirational. I, I'm going to give a different type of answer or a provocative answer related to the beating yourself up part. I think something that's really effective that we're not talking a whole lot about is a form of radical acceptance of what is in our control or not in our control. And I think we do a lot of beating ourselves up because we have bad hygiene at the moment when it comes to our technologies or our devices. And I think the problem of your anger rhythm or whatever term you want to use only gets exacerbated when we feel the shame of, we shouldn't be doing this thing. And I think we're in an environment that oftentimes is stacked against the human and for us to feel bad about our own habits. If I wake up and the first thing I do in bed is, you know, look at my email messages telling me that I'm a bad person for checking my email in bed, does it make me feel any better as well?

Matt Klein (37:31):

So I think there's a sliver of not acceptance or you know, acquiescence, but a form of accepting the moment that we're in, which is like, it's okay that we're all experiencing this distress and we shouldn't be even harder on ourselves because we fall trapped to bad habits. I think it's incredibly aspirational for us to, you know, buy the dumb phone. But the truth of the matter is every aspect of society is now connected to the internet. Your banking, your education, your healthcare. Yeah. For you to be told that you're a bad person for checking your apps. There's of course balance. We need the detox; we need the grass. Sure. But to say that if you're not buying a dub phone, I mean that's, that's unrealistic. That's not a real way of living in 2026 or even in the future as the rest of the world gets connected to the internet. So there's something in the middle between, yes, we want to inspire and motivate and empower environments for better digital hygiene and habits, and at the same time acknowledge the current moment that we're in, which is, it's something that we're all experiencing. And can we, again, not accept that wholeheartedly, but can we accept the fact that, yeah, this sucks and is really hard and you're not a bad person for falling trap.

Matt Carmichael (38:41):

Yeah. Well, I want to thank you both for coming and taking part in this our kind of first guest webinar for what the future. I think you would both be great dinner guests, so thank you. And then I want to thank you all for your attention for coming out and watching this with us. Stay tuned. Our next issue of what the future is going to be about the future of success building off of our American Dream conversation from last year. You can see it all and all of our back issues, of course, at future.ipsos.com. And as always, I want to close by saying thank you for your attention. Thank you for coming out. Thank you for giving yourself some space to think about the future of a thing, whether that's just watching a webinar or reading a magazine, or doing obviously a full trends and foresight exercise, which we'll always recommend. But if you stop and give yourself some time to get out of your day to day and quarter to quarter and think about the future broadly, even just for a little bit of your attention, you're going to do better research and ask better questions today. So thanks very much. We will be back here in the future.